Was anyone else mad at Nasuada?, Her actions in Brisingr Options

[evilspower]

Nasuada has always had quite a bit of power being the leader of the Varden and Eragon's liegelord, but never really "abused" that power.

In Brisingr, however, she kind of took it a little too far in my opinion. For example, even though she is Eragon's liegelord, she has never really relied on ordering him around, but rather would request things from him on the basis that they were the right things to do(which Eragon mostly agreed with in books 1 and 2). In Brisingr though, she orders him to seperate from Saphira to visit the dwarves, and generally makes more use of her command than on previous occasions. I was alright with her actions up to that point as I agreed that although it was questionable, her orders were probably the best way to go.

After that though, when it came to dealing with Roran's insubordination, I was very upset with Nasuada. Not only did she make the mistake of putting Roran under the command of an inept captain, she had to also have been the one to promote that captain in the first place. Then she sends this company of 250 out to fight against one of 700 (another mistake, no matter how shorthanded the Varden are) a battle that they should have by no means won. Then Roran saves her hide by ignoring orders that would have got their company killed, and instead leads them to an extremely improbable victory, slaying nearly 200 mean by himself.

Think of the situation Roran saved the Varden from. If he had followed orders, they would have most likely been killed. 250 soldiers, including a good magician (Carn) as well as a warrior of Roran's caliber dead. The company they fought would have suffered casualties, but still would have been able to go about wreaking havoc throughout Surda in the time it would've taken Nasuada to send yet another group of soldiers out to take care of them.

So how does Nasuada go about rewarding Roran for covering her multiple mistakes? She has him whipped fifty times in front of the entire Varden. I get that there were certain precedents that are normally followed in cases of insubordination, but you would think those could be overlooked in this type of case. Not to mention it had to be bad for the morale of the troops seeing Eragon's cousin whipped (and even worse for the morale of those in the company who had their lives saved by Roran and witnessed his epic battle).

ok think about this all strageticially and politically. when they sent rorans troop agianst the enemy they didn't say it was going to be 700 they said it would be an overmatched fight in favor of the enemy but the reports were false. but the captain thought they could take on the enemy.

with nasuada forcing the whipping of roran the reason is all about being able to trust her troops. if everyone finds out that just because he feels its the right thing to do you should do it. yes roran did the right thing but even then it was all from perspective, but when you get someone who doesn't have a good perspective well he could say that killing an innocent women that he THOUGHT was lieing but had no evidence would prove horrible. so she had to iron out that wrinkle. and roran completely understands that. that captain she belived to be a good captain after the attack though she realized her mistake and removed him from rank.


now with eragon this is completely not worthy of her attention. the dwarves are a vital assertation to the varden. and obviosully eragon could have not obeyed orders and ran away but he knew the orders were good. saphira realized that to. yes it was hard for them but they knew they had to give up and do it for the good of the varden.

if this doesn't help you then im sorry but im not going to be hard headed about this conversation

[texasman]

Still, public whipping to make her point and then a healing to show that she was greatful for saving 70+ of her men and single-handedly killing near 200 enemies.

[sirwence]

Still, public whipping to make her point and then a healing to show that she was greatful for saving 70+ of her men and single-handedly killing near 200 enemies.

Im not sure if it was gratitude, or her wanting to 'use' him to achieve another goal. To be quite blunt. (which is true she felt she needed him to lead the Urgals and Humans on a raid, and felt him as both Eragons cousin and for his own achievements the best one suited to the task. It wasn't gratitude, it was a matter of usefulness.. And saving herself from Eragons wrath heh (I noticed how he has no knowledge of 50 lashes for following uniform military code (Illegal orders , or Orders that might be deemed 'wrongful' are to be disobeyed) But I doubt CP has any knowledge of the military haha. I wonder why she never told him.

This post has been edited by sirwence: Sep 24 2008, 11:59 PM

[zoomboom]

I think in this book she has really realised that defeating the Empire is possible and she can do it. This has caused her to possible think herself as a much more influential person, this is probably why she is ordering Eragon around.

As for the Roran whipping thing, she had to give the order to whip him, it was law. If she went against the law other people in the Varden would doubt her abilities as a leader. In my view she did what she had to at that point in time, regardless of the fact that what she did was right, or wrong.

[joemoose]

She did what she did not on the basis of right or wrong, but because if she gave relatives of powerful people special treatment, then it would undermine her authority as leader, and make her seem weak in the eyes of her critics. Whether she wanted to do it or not, she had no other choice.

[sirwence]

She did what she did not on the basis of right or wrong, but because if she gave relatives of powerful people special treatment, then it would undermine her authority as leader, and make her seem weak in the eyes of her critics. Whether she wanted to do it or not, she had no other choice.

I feel I need to point this out yet again.. She does and did.. though 50 lashes should kill most any man. The Vardens laws really should be Death by Hanging Death by whipping 30 times or Death by whipping 50 times. Since CP has no understanding of whipping or its consequences on the body. However you even hear her mention, unless im greatly mistaken- 'If you wern't Eragons..." etc Sorry Joe but there is no way she kills Roran , or she would lose Eragons support- Her being his liege lord ends when he decides to end it. She has no true power over him.

I also disliked her arrogance stating if he took over the Varden he would be a dictator... So.. Because he disagrees with a scheme of hers.....hes going to be a dictator? Someone is getting a tad Arrogant in her position in my opinion. Though I also think she will die in the final book. And die a good death like Oromis. Power can make many people arrogant, I don't hate her- I simply think she is taking her power a bit to far on some occasions.

As for the laws.... I am going to simply take a guess here... and say, that firing arrows at your ally and this ally being the last free dragon rider who can truly challenge the king, is a whipping offense. Yet Eragon over rides the punishment. So apparently the rules aren't always followed.

This post has been edited by sirwence: Sep 25 2008, 06:11 AM

[Hampson]

:L imagine if eragon got so pissed at nasuada for whipping roran he stabbed her

[Dragon92]

She tried her best but did make some mistakes. For example in the battle when rohan saves her armies skins because a captain who didnt know what was going on led them into almost certain death. what does she do, whips the absolute nackers out of him. She did abuse her power over eragon as well.

[EragonForPreside...]

Power corrupts.

Personally i now support Galby. Actually I'm joking but i now respect Nausada more than before. That whole trial of knives was immense. And she did have to make a lot of difficult decisions. So what if she seperated Eragon + dragon. It was a good tatical ploy that worked out for the best.

[Autumn Bromson]

I thought Nausada was timid and weak in Eragon, but CP has turned her into a major powerhouse, and not for the better. She has exceellent leader skills, but she overextends her control. (Yes, I am saying she is a control freak.) That being said, she has many reasons for concern. She is trying to defeat Gallby with his own tactics-for the better or worse. Under her leadership, the varden has been victorious, but at what cost?

This post has been edited by Autumn Bromson: Sep 25 2008, 10:14 AM

[Brom is my Daddy]

Nasuada did mention that Roran could be a threat to her. Maybe she is getting nervous that he might be a better leader than her. You know nasuada going to die in the next book and Roran will take over the varden and then eventually take over the empire.

Mark my words

Your thoughts are the same as mine. CP doesn't do anything arbitrary. What are the men of the Varden now saying about Roran? They will all know how he valiantly defeated an enemy (nearly) single handedly, was going to be punished for his insubordination, yet voluntarily took it to stay with the Varden so he can continue to fight for thier cause. The other soldiers KNOW all he had to do was play the Eragon's my cousin card and he would get out of punishment...but he didn't. He took it like a man. His level of respect is likely now off the charts. If/when (I say when) Nasuada dies or is no longer able to lead the Varden, you will see Roran rally the troops, lead them to a great victory, and (this is my opinion as it is yours) eventually become King of Alagaesia. Don't be suprised if somehow it is uncovered that he is a descendant of Mad King Palancar and thus has royal blood.

[Autumn Bromson]

Whipping I can understand, as he did break the law and he was serving as an example of loyalty to the men. At the same time, his own example showed that the courageous do what is best for all, even if they take pain upon themselves.

My point of being pissed at her was having Roran go on a mission immediately after his back being opened up with more holes than swiss cheese.

I concur. Part of me hopes she (Nasuda) is replaced in the IV book, for she is getting to powerful and cruel for her own good. She should have punished the leader (I forgot his name), and NOT Roran. I can't help but notice how the insubordinates get severly punished, while the generals get a slap on the wrist. If the laws support this hyprocracy, the laws need to be changed! I suppose Nasuada is better than the counsel, but Eragon might regret fealty giving his loyalty to her. Perhaps she'll die in battle and someone more worthy shall take the reigns.

[Autumn Bromson]

Nasuada did mention that Roran could be a threat to her. Maybe she is getting nervous that he might be a better leader than her. You know nasuada going to die in the next book and Roran will take over the varden and then eventually take over the empire.

Mark my words

By rights the largest threats to her are the council. As nither Roran nor Eragon want to rule the empire , or lead the Varden, if Eragon wanted to, he could have taken control of the Varden himself, with the support of the people. Seeing as neither want it, the only way they would take it is if she died and left it to one of them to lead in her place. Unless she dies I see no other Varden Leader.

I hope this is the final outcome in the IV book, or at least a tough yet kind leader is choosen. Perhpas a new leader shall emerge in book IV?

[lady_nightstalke...]

Most of the comments in this thread pertain to the whipping of Roran. I agree it was excessive and I felt Edric should have shared in the public humiliation with a whipping of his own. And then, asking Roran to go back into battle was a bit much as well.

However, my biggest problems with Nasuada were:

Her wanting to make painless soldiers of her own (that is basically condemning someone to death).
And, her treatment of Elva. Not only does she make the child stand around all day hiding behind a curtain for the purpose of her own protection - she wanted to guilt that same child into continuing in excruciating pain and distress for her own protection. Let's not forget that Elva should be an infant but appears as a 4-6 year old. And then she asks Eragon to collude with her in the guilt-trip and even asks him to break his oath to Elva. Elva may be no sweet little girl - however - no child deserves to be treated the way that Nasuada is treating her.

In those instances, I felt that Nasuada is full of herself and her own importance and is deluding herself thinking she does whatever is necessary for the "good of the Varden". I think she is really doing everything that is for the good of herself and protecting her own position of power. If, for the good of the varden it was necessary for her to step down, would she do it? I don't think so.

[magicks master]

I agree totally with you, I wanted to whip Nasuda when she sentenced Roran to 50 lashes, And I think Roran will take over the Varden because C.P. spent all of that time talking about how Roran was a great leader and all of that in Eldest.












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This post has been edited by magicks master: Sep 25 2008, 12:25 PM