[Aran]

Sorry if a similar topic has been posted, I looked but found nothing.

So yeah, I've been wondering this lately. I have a habit of making sort of "shout-outs" to various people/books/places/whatever when I'm developing my stories. It's mostly because I'm a huge nerd and dearly love my nerdy interests.

I suppose the biggest example of this I've got is my main character. His name is Thaddeus and he has a bad foot (it's twisted inwards and he has to walk with a cane and it's really difficult for him to walk and it looks weird). He also lives in the mid-1850s American south.

Now, I'm not sure how much this means to most people, but my biggest hero ever is a man named Thaddeus Stevens. He was a really big part of the anti-slavery movement back in the Civil War. He also had a clubfoot. And I'm obsessed with the Civil War era.

So... you can see the situation. My Thaddeus is kind of a shout-out to the real Thaddeus, what with the name and the foot, but he's also his own character.

Now everybody gets mad at CP for stealing plot-elements and names and such. But how can we be sure that these things he took aren't intentional references to things he admires? (I don't believe that at all, by the way)

So my question for you all is this: In your opinion, what is the difference between inspiration and copying? And where is the line that separates the two?

My opinion is if you shamelessly acknowledge that you were inspired by someone/something, it's not really copying. Unless it's a major major major thing, like a plot point that is very specific to something else.

What do you think?

[Regitnui]

That's okay. Minor things like the name of a secondary character or place can be used as shoutouts in my opinion. CP's problem, as i see it, was that he took Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern, threw it into a Lord of The Rings universe and expected noone to notice. There are simply too many similarities between those two and his work for it to be considered original.
Your character is based on an obscure (to me, not being American) hero, so i see no problem with it.

Can we get an American's perspective? How well known is Thaddeus Stevens?

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[Hoof Hearted]

I've never heard of him.

[garfield]

See, I would consider taking names directly a little too much (in the case of fantasy, when they're clearly made up). As a writer, I wouldn't be comfortable with taking someone else's names - it would be like calling a character in my books Lirael. Wouldn't feel right to me, and the readers, I'm sure, would be like 'what the hell? Who does she think she is?'. Aside from the fact that these similarities will invariably connect your work to the work of the author whose names you're using (and in this case, I would think, not in a good way) names can be quite personal, especially if, like in the majority of fantasy novels, they're made up (or adapted from other names - basically, ones you wouldn't hear out on the street too often). Exactly the fact that they're 'made up' creates a strong link between the name and the initial character. Think about it again - if I had a character in my book called Lirael. Upon reading it, the first character that would pop into your head would be Lirael from the Abhorsen trilogy, because the name is so distinctive. No matter how minor a role my character had to play, she would be associated with Garth Nix's Lirael (and rightly so), thus disabling MY Lirael's chance at any type of character development of her own (at least in the reader's eyes). So I would generally avoid the direct transplantation of names, places or otherwise.
In the case of history, it's slightly different, because they don't belong to anyone, really. I would think that your example would be acceptable.

Anyway, the difference between inspiration and copying... I find it difficult to define exactly where the line is drawn between the two. It seems to me like it's a fine one, but at the same time it's always blatantly obvious when someone has copied, rather than when someone was inspired. I guess the key thing is that inspiration is what plants the first seed or two in your head. You could be 'inspired' by the Inheritance cycle to write a book about dragons, but along the way your own plot, characters, setting etc would develop into your own story. If you were 'inspired' to write a book about a farmboy who finds a dragon egg and becomes the first dragon rider in a hundred years, or whatever it was, and has to go on a MAGICAL QUEST OF WONDER to save the land from an evil king, well... that's obviously copying.
In other words. Inspiration = drawing minor elements from a certain aspect of a book, or from a book in general, that enables you to begin your own story. I would also say that inspiration is not something you can control - you don't pick up a book and think 'hmm, this looks good, I'm going to read it and be inspired'. Rather, the inspiration comes after, and without you directly seeking it out.
Copying = exactly that. Taking one too many aspects of a book without adding your own twist, very little character/plot/setting development... essentially lifting things out of other books and changing very little. Contrasting it with inspiration, I believe you can choose what book you want to copy from. And even if it's just because you think the book was amazingly brilliant, it weakens your own piece extraordinarily.

[Thundra]

I have to agree with garfield. For example, my book, Black Magic, (first chapter is posted up, so you can take a look for yourselves), was inspired by DJ MacHale's Pendragon series.

In Pendragon, the main character, Bobby Pendragon is whisked off to another planet by his Uncle Press, and bascially forced into believing he's not who he though he was, and his parents aren't his real parents, and such.

In Black Magic, the two main characters, Terri Parker and Hayley Bennett aer just two regular teenagers who suddenly discover they have strange powers when they're somehow teleported to another world and/or time. They learn (but aren't forced into believing) that nothing is what it once seemed, and must learn to cope with it.

Though there are quite a few similarites, I have added a lot of my own twists and such, so it's not copying. If I were to just take DJ MacHale's work and call it my own, or just add a few minor twists, then it would be copying.

[Regitnui]

See, I would consider taking names directly a little too much (in the case of fantasy, when they're clearly made up). As a writer, I wouldn't be comfortable with taking someone else's names - it would be like calling a character in my books Lirael. Wouldn't feel right to me, and the readers, I'm sure, would be like 'what the hell? Who does she think she is?'. Aside from the fact that these similarities will invariably connect your work to the work of the author whose names you're using (and in this case, I would think, not in a good way) names can be quite personal, especially if, like in the majority of fantasy novels, they're made up (or adapted from other names - basically, ones you wouldn't hear out on the street too often). Exactly the fact that they're 'made up' creates a strong link between the name and the initial character. Think about it again - if I had a character in my book called Lirael. Upon reading it, the first character that would pop into your head would be Lirael from the Abhorsen trilogy, because the name is so distinctive. No matter how minor a role my character had to play, she would be associated with Garth Nix's Lirael (and rightly so), thus disabling MY Lirael's chance at any type of character development of her own (at least in the reader's eyes). So I would generally avoid the direct transplantation of names, places or otherwise.
In the case of history, it's slightly different, because they don't belong to anyone, really. I would think that your example would be acceptable.

Anyway, the difference between inspiration and copying... I find it difficult to define exactly where the line is drawn between the two. It seems to me like it's a fine one, but at the same time it's always blatantly obvious when someone has copied, rather than when someone was inspired. I guess the key thing is that inspiration is what plants the first seed or two in your head. You could be 'inspired' by the Inheritance cycle to write a book about dragons, but along the way your own plot, characters, setting etc would develop into your own story. If you were 'inspired' to write a book about a farmboy who finds a dragon egg and becomes the first dragon rider in a hundred years, or whatever it was, and has to go on a MAGICAL QUEST OF WONDER to save the land from an evil king, well... that's obviously copying.
In other words. Inspiration = drawing minor elements from a certain aspect of a book, or from a book in general, that enables you to begin your own story. I would also say that inspiration is not something you can control - you don't pick up a book and think 'hmm, this looks good, I'm going to read it and be inspired'. Rather, the inspiration comes after, and without you directly seeking it out.
Copying = exactly that. Taking one too many aspects of a book without adding your own twist, very little character/plot/setting development... essentially lifting things out of other books and changing very little. Contrasting it with inspiration, I believe you can choose what book you want to copy from. And even if it's just because you think the book was amazingly brilliant, it weakens your own piece extraordinarily.

But Lirael, as it is so dsitinct, is a bad choice for copying. If you want to copy names, choose the once-mentioned-twice-forgotten minor characters. Lirael is actually the books title so unless you want to make it really obvious...

The plotlines are the easiest thing to begin copying, but rather try setting up a story based on two or three sources that 'tone' your work, and then decide what is is about yours that makes it different. Characters are something that should not be copied unless you're doing a fanfic. Your own individual characters should be able to lend your work an air of originality just by how they react in the story as opposed to someone else's.

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[Ultima Valenhart]

I think some situations that can appear in novels will be accused of copying no matter how you change them. For example, I have a scene where an entire navy fleet is destroyed in the Shadow's Lair series and I'm already aware that having that in there is probably going to be linked to Pearl Harbor. No matter how I write it, because Pearl Harbor was such a massive historical event.

Or that's just my opinion.

[whereisbook4]

In my oppinoin, the only difference between Inspiration and Copying is how famous you are. You can do plagurise anything if you are famous enough. At this point, CP could just take one of Tolkein's books, rename the characters, introduce a couple of dragons, and call it his work. Which, in a way, he has.

[sean the man]

I personally find it very hard to stop other author's work influence my own work. But really, I don't see anything wrong with it. CP did go a bit overboard with it, I have to admit. But my book is very similar to Eragon, so I won't condemn him for it.
I have to be honest with everyone, I wouldn't care if a book came out that was completely copying Eragon, because I love it so much. It;s gonna be sad when it's done.
I think, to be honest, you can't write something completely original anymore. Chances are, whatever you've written has probably been written before.

So my advice is this: Take what you need from other people's books (and real life), but make it your own. Put your own spin on it.

[Go for Gin]

The difference between inspiration and copying is how deliberate it is. And even then, it can be a fine line. I doubt CP intended for his plot to be so similar to that of Star Wars. However, I think he knows that he was inspired by pretty much every epic/high fantasy out there. His work isn't copying, it's extremely archtypical. People on this site seem to think he sat down at a desk and said "hmm...I like Star Wars, so let's write Star Wars, only WITH DRAGONS." I think he sat down at a desk and said "hmm...I like fantasy, so let's write a fantasy book. I don't really know where to start, so I think I'll draw a bit from all the books I love."

See...the difference is hard to draw once you throw in deliberate allusions and acknowledged inspiration. People don't bash anyone for copying the Bible, or Shakespeare, or Greek mythology. In fact, maybe that's because they're purposely alluding to works that have been marked as great by us. And all because they copied the greats, we're calling them great and studying their work. Maybe Paolini is just thinking ahead and doing the same with Star Wars and LotR, which are already seen as great works. Or maybe not. I dunno.

[Regitnui]

In my oppinoin, the only difference between Inspiration and Copying is how famous you are. You can do plagurise anything if you are famous enough. At this point, CP could just take one of Tolkein's books, rename the characters, introduce a couple of dragons, and call it his work. Which, in a way, he has.

That is so cynical. Famous authors got to where they are by being original, not copying. Nobody has ever become famous by copying someone else's work. Yes, Eragon is extremely similar to a number of things, but that is the first time those elements have been put together in that way. It is a Christopher Paolini Original.

Firebound can be traced back to any number of similar sources, but i challenge you to find one instance of copying. If you're a writer the least you can do is to take inspiration from other forms of media. It is accepted practice. But Plagarise and prepare for your work never to see the light of day.

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[Wikkid X]

I recently realised that Ash, one of characters in my book, is sort of turning into the Tenth Doctor in character, and zipping between universes in a very Rose-like way (both characters from British sci-fi TV show 'Doctor Who'). It was completely accidental, it's just the way my brain works - that's just proof of how obsessed I am. But it's really subtle really - I think only I and my friend Helena (who's as obsessed as I am!) would notice, and even then it's just like a nod to the show, it's not like I'm palgarizing (sorry, can't spell that word) their characters or plots.

I don't actually know where I'm going with this. I think what I'm aiming to say is, the difference between inspiration and copying is how obvious it is. If it's subtle, just a little 'tip of the hat', it's okay - in fact, I enjoy stuff like that because I feel good if I spot its origins. An example of this might be (with Doctor Who again, strangely!), Paolini's "lonely god" reference in Brisingr. Anything more obvious, which distracts from the story at hand and lowers the reader's estimation of you, like the whole Eragon/Star Wars thing, is bad.

[Regitnui]

I recently realised that Ash, one of characters in my book, is sort of turning into the Tenth Doctor in character, and zipping between universes in a very Rose-like way (both characters from British sci-fi TV show 'Doctor Who'). It was completely accidental, it's just the way my brain works - that's just proof of how obsessed I am. But it's really subtle really - I think only I and my friend Helena (who's as obsessed as I am!) would notice, and even then it's just like a nod to the show, it's not like I'm palgarizing (sorry, can't spell that word) their characters or plots.

I don't actually know where I'm going with this. I think what I'm aiming to say is, the difference between inspiration and copying is how obvious it is. If it's subtle, just a little 'tip of the hat', it's okay - in fact, I enjoy stuff like that because I feel good if I spot its origins. An example of this might be (with Doctor Who again, strangely!), Paolini's "lonely god" reference in Brisingr. Anything more obvious, which distracts from the story at hand and lowers the reader's estimation of you, like the whole Eragon/Star Wars thing, is bad.

That's what the difference is. Thank you WikkidX.

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[Wikkid X]

That's what the difference is. Thank you WikkidX.

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Glad to be of assistance.