Thorns Flying, Thorn is always outflown Options

[crymson ryder]

All throughout Brisingr Thorn was outflown Minus the part that Glaedr was blind with rage, and thorn had to kill him

[KingAngus]

Hmm, I think Glaedr was not blind wish rage but furiously determined, I sort of thought this was going to lead to Glaedr just biting Thorn in half but somehow Thorn managed to clamp down on his skull.

Hundreds of years of training, knowledge, and growing and yet the balance of the book dictated this illogical outcome. W00t.

[The Stig]

There are several reasons why Thorn is always outflown by Saphira: the first is that Saphira is an excellent flyer as Oromis said that he had never seen a dragon so suited to the skys when he first saw Saphira fly, and the second reason is that Galbatorix's meadeling has made Thorn unsure of his own body but even if Thorn had grown normally I think Saphira would still outfly him. And finally there is the question of his tail and how much that will affect his flying.

[saphiraftw]

Galby will probably use some super dark magic to attach it back on, or grow a new tail, so that might take a couple days/weeks, but i guess he will fully recover from that wound. And Thorn winning from Glaedr was mostly because Thorn was still possessed by Galby, and Glaedr wasn't really thinking straight, he just went directly for the kill. And most of the time if such an outraged being attacks you, you just have to think a little bit faster, evade him and then take your own shot. That's how Glaedr is killed, i think. But it still is very sad , i liked Glaedr so much. And this might sound dumb, but i actually only figured out that Glaedr is like glider, the second time i read the book. I always pronounced it Glaadr .

[BartimaeusTrilog...]

"Even if Saphira had been raised on Vroengard using the establishing methods, she would still be an extraordinary flier. I've rarely seen a dragon so naturally suited to the sky."

~ Oromis, page 277, Eldest.

The red dragon was smaller than Saphira, but thicker in his legs and shoulders.

~ Page 641, Eldest.

A) He's always been up against dragons with months (or decades) over him, time spent training in flight. (Saphie did train. Trying to out-fly an army or group of enemies counts. XD)

B) He's a bulky guy. Saphie is built for the sky, he is built for fighting, physical strength.

C) He's a bit new to all of this, is he not? He's much younger than Saphie, and his life is a bit stressful, no? Not to mention confusing.

[crymson ryder]

i think that murtaughs downfall will be thorn, becuase he has no shot against saphira

[cartman]

He's an inexperienced dragon who isn't fully trained.

[Saeb]

Hold up, it seems that there is no debate (yay!) and no discussion in this thread, just cumulative ideas. I'm kinda confused here, but once you say:

• Thorn's build is more for strength, Saphira's is graceful and elegant.
• Saphira is a natural flier.
• Thorn did not grow properly into his own body.
• Thorn has probably had other meddle-ins by Galbatorix.
• Thorn has had less fighting experience. He had only trained against Shruikan. Saphira had Glaedr who was a tougher opponent and was much wiser and a better teacher. "I was old even before you were born." - Glaedr, Brisingr.

...once that is said, there isn't really anything left to say.

This post has been edited by Saeb: Jun 20 2009, 08:59 PM

[crymson ryder]

has thorn learned from encounters with saphira yet? Will he?

[Murthorn]

Glaedr being tougher than Shurikan can be debated. Remember that Glaedr had a serious injury that would impair his fighting abilities.

[crymson ryder]

ya, shruiken has to be one pissed off dragon

[dce5794]

Well, Thorn, since he has been trained against Shruikan (a really big, strong dragon) knows exactly how to fight other big, strong dragons; use his agility to his own advantage. This must be how he defeated Glaedr (well, that, and Glaedr was extremely angry, and went directly for him). But Thorn does NOT know how to fight a nimbler dragon than he, being only trained against giant dragons. This is how Saphira managed to be able to rip his wing off (even thoguh she didn't). And besides, Saphira is a naturally brilliant flier, so Thorn can't out-maneuver Saphira, as she is more nimble than Thorn, though a little bigger - so Thorn doesn't know how to use his strength to his advantage.

In one sentence - Thorn loses to Saphira in a flying contest.

[Saeb]

I don't see any reason why training against bigger dragons should give him a disadvantage against smaller dragons. Dragons grow very quickly until they reach their 'full' dragon size, then grow very, very slowly for the rest of their lives. That is why, contrary to what I originaly though, Glaedr isn't so giant, but only about 3 times bigger than Saphira. According to estimations from the books and the blurb of Eldest, Saphira is nearly 1 year old after Brisingr. Therefore, she probably would be nearing her 'full' dragon height, and therefore Glaedr doesn't have as much as advanatage of size over her, just ~1000 years of very, very, very slow growing.

I don't understand why you are saying that Thorn naturally has great agility. I don't think he would, he is a macho dragon, just not full size. The real reason he can't defeat Saphira is the meddle-in of his body and Saphira's clearly huge maneouverability advantage. Theoretically, a macho dragon can beat a natural-flier dragon. Just Thorn is unluckily slightly-deformed.

[BartimaeusTrilog...]

He's not deformed, just of a different build. O_o

Humans have different body types as well, you know.

On the ground, Thorn could probably win. But in the air? That's Saphira's element.

[iHateElves]

I believe that Thorn wouldn't stand a chance against Saphira without Galby's meddling. What really stood out to me is Thorn's now miniature tail. In Book I when Saphira drew Eragon into her body, Eragon was surprised at how much she depended upon her tail. If it is the same for Thorn, as i believe it is, he will be as much a cripple as Glaedr.