[ERASTRESHTIN WRTR]

Alright, this has been my main delimma from the very beginning, ever since I started to write books almost a year and a half ago.

Is it possible to use books as inspiration, to use like for instance, dragon rider...how many books have that...is it copywrite? Is it okay if I make a book based on such a thing, but at the same time, maek up my own story about the whole ordeal, making the book completely different from Paolinis, "The author of my favorite book series, 'Eragon'"
I am probably just being paranoid, but I felt it would be smart to clear that subject up, because its been haunting me every time I continue on the book I am making.
Any pointers and what-not would be great, as far how far!

[Pixel]

This belongs in Writers Hangout.

As for your book. I think, if it uses a bunch of aspects of Paolinis world, then it is plagiarism. One should try to be completely original. Even if it doesn't turn out to be, you can take pride in knowing you didn't knowingly copy any other authors work.

[dragonking555]

It is perfectly alright to do that. Eragon itself was derived from Dragon Riders of Pern. It is a very similar concept. He tweeked it some to make it his own. Just so long as you don't make an exact copy you will be fine. Make the story your own with a similar concept if that is what you want to do. What are you thinking of doing or is this just a hypothetical question?

[Pixel]

It is perfectly alright to do that. Eragon itself was derived from Dragon Riders of Pern. It is a very similar concept. He tweeked it some to make it his own. Just so long as you don't make an exact copy you will be fine. Make the story your own with a similar concept if that is what you want to do. What are you thinking of doing or is this just a hypothetical question?

Just because Paolini supposedly copied, doesn't mean it is alright to do it yourself.

[dragonking555]

Taking a concept is not copying someone else. It is taking an idea and expanding upon it and altering it. If you think reusing a single concept is copying then tell that to Rowling as well who borrowed such giant spiders and schools for the abnormal. She was not the first to do that and she took it and made it her own. Taking a concept is not copying it is more...... evolving and idea. Almost all fantasy books borrow something from somewhere look at Lord of the Rings and Beowulf and the similarities.

[Grilader]

I often experience the same problem My best resolution is to think of the most absurd ideas relating to subject I'm talking about and put the down. It's original, funny and creative I think. I hate the feeling you get when you steal an idea from a book.

But they say no idea is really original...

[Kari]

Yes, because there are zillions of people.

Don't think like that. You can come up with ideas that are original. And no one will lynch you if you write about dragon riders. But think; what new thing can you offer to the theme to make it interesting? We've got DragonLancer, the Dragonriders of pern, Inheritance. There are God knows how many books with that subject. I don't want to discourage you, but you need to come up with something that will be fresh and interesting in order to attract an editor/ reader.

[Pixel]

Taking a concept is not copying someone else. It is taking an idea and expanding upon it and altering it. If you think reusing a single concept is copying then tell that to Rowling as well who borrowed such giant spiders and schools for the abnormal. She was not the first to do that and she took it and made it her own. Taking a concept is not copying it is more...... evolving and idea. Almost all fantasy books borrow something from somewhere look at Lord of the Rings and Beowulf and the similarities.

What I am trying to say is that one should be original, not just to take an idea and rewrite your own story with it. But if one is expanding on an idea, then I guess I can see your point. But still, trying to be original is always best. Always.

[eragon nerd]

The Derivatives topic has a similar disscussion. So I'll quote some relevant stuff that I said there.

Inspiration from another author is perfectly fine. Using similar techniques might get you branded as a "Thief" but only if you are a published author. Why? Because your making money off this work and part of the reason why you might be making money is because you "stole" the idea of someone else.

In this way, if your writing for practice, which is consider educational, you fall under "fair use" which means you are immune from lawsuits and all that mess for Intellectual Property infringement.

If your worried about borrowing just a thing here or there, don't forget fan-fiction borrows the entire world, characters, and often plot, of published authors.

Now should you do it? Personally, (No offense intended to Pixel) it is extremely difficult for a new writer to create a completely new world, plot, and characters. You would simply drown yourself in all the complexities and the writing would not be fun.

This is part of the reason why many people write fan fiction instead of going for an original work. Now this doesn't mean it's fine to blatantly rip off another author, especially if you still want to keep the title "original". However, if your time is limited, taking a largely complete world (And let's be honest here, almost all EF uses the same world with some sorts of tweaks) and working your own story and characters into it is great practice.

Key word is practice. At this stage you can throw out your hopes of getting it published. Odds are this will only impede you if you keep this unrealistic goal.

I view borrowing largely as a way to expedite the process of writing so you focus on improving skills you find relevant (Such as working on your ability to weave a plot, tell a coherent narrative, or create real characters).

However this does mean you will be on training wheels and will be underdeveloped in the areas you borrow from.

I agree with Pixel that originality is always best, but for a new writer, it is also difficult. You will write in a similar fashion to what is familiar (As you are already trying to do by picking your favorite book series for inspiration.) I'm not going to get into the debate about Inheritance but I would probably suggest you expand your reading horizons a little farther so you can soak in some other types of books.

Personally I tried writing from a younger age but I basically did what you are proposing. I decided to wait until I thought I was capable of writing something different or original.

This post has been edited by eragon nerd: 23 August 2009 - 05:48 PM

[Spinner]

Concepts are not copyrighted. You can use as many dragonriders, elves, dwarves, what have you--in your book as you want. Should you try to get published? Probably not. Will it sell? Ehhhh...

Still, you need to keep in mind there are different kinds of concepts. A popular one, like elves being an immortal race and the embodiment of perfection is more or less a trademark of high fantasy. You can use it, but it's been done before. Your book may sell despite, but a lot of people are going to roll their eyes. Because it's been done before and there's no copyright on it is no reason to use it. That leads to derivative ideas, and we've seen enough of that.

Taking a concept is not copying someone else. It is taking an idea and expanding upon it and altering it. If you think reusing a single concept is copying then tell that to Rowling as well who borrowed such giant spiders and schools for the abnormal. She was not the first to do that and she took it and made it her own. Taking a concept is not copying it is more...... evolving and idea. Almost all fantasy books borrow something from somewhere look at Lord of the Rings and Beowulf and the similarities.

Thank you for outlining why virtually all fantasy written in the last ten years is unimaginative crap.

There's a big, big difference between "taking concepts" and "being inspired." I've read Beowulf, and I've seen the LoTR movies, and I really don't see any glaring conceptual copy offs. Besides, Tolkien was a Norse-inspired linguist--the story was to tie the language to a world. You really can't get inspiration from something like a fscking legend and not have it show in your work. Books like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Beowulf all had one or more things going for them that modern family doesn't. Beowulf is a Norse legend. It's canon. Lord of the Rings was written by someone who dedicated his life to Norse-inspired language and wrote the story to thread the language together. Harry Potter is themed on friendship and death. All three have substantial reasons for being what they are, and share inspirations, but the core themes are different. If you look closely at the history of what you call fantasy, the roots of it are essentially bringing mythology and metaphor into the mainstream. It's based on ancient ideas of storytelling--that everything has a message, that everything means something.

Personally, I don't see any of the "evolution" you're claiming. I just see the same idea over and over again.

When you're young, it's pretty much impossible not to derive off something. Seriously--write what you want, and enjoy it, and show it to people who you think will enjoy it. You'll grow beyond those fears that you're copying off of someone.

Ben

[dragonking555]

Concepts are not copyrighted. You can use as many dragonriders, elves, dwarves, what have you--in your book as you want. Should you try to get published? Probably not. Will it sell? Ehhhh...

Still, you need to keep in mind there are different kinds of concepts. A popular one, like elves being an immortal race and the embodiment of perfection is more or less a trademark of high fantasy. You can use it, but it's been done before. Your book may sell despite, but a lot of people are going to roll their eyes. Because it's been done before and there's no copyright on it is no reason to use it. That leads to derivative ideas, and we've seen enough of that.

Taking a concept is not copying someone else. It is taking an idea and expanding upon it and altering it. If you think reusing a single concept is copying then tell that to Rowling as well who borrowed such giant spiders and schools for the abnormal. She was not the first to do that and she took it and made it her own. Taking a concept is not copying it is more...... evolving and idea. Almost all fantasy books borrow something from somewhere look at Lord of the Rings and Beowulf and the similarities.

Thank you for outlining why virtually all fantasy written in the last ten years is unimaginative crap.

There's a big, big difference between "taking concepts" and "being inspired." I've read Beowulf, and I've seen the LoTR movies, and I really don't see any glaring conceptual copy offs. Besides, Tolkien was a Norse-inspired linguist--the story was to tie the language to a world. You really can't get inspiration from something like a fscking legend and not have it show in your work. Books like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Beowulf all had one or more things going for them that modern family doesn't. Beowulf is a Norse legend. It's canon. Lord of the Rings was written by someone who dedicated his life to Norse-inspired language and wrote the story to thread the language together. Harry Potter is themed on friendship and death. All three have substantial reasons for being what they are, and share inspirations, but the core themes are different. If you look closely at the history of what you call fantasy, the roots of it are essentially bringing mythology and metaphor into the mainstream. It's based on ancient ideas of storytelling--that everything has a message, that everything means something.

Personally, I don't see any of the "evolution" you're claiming. I just see the same idea over and over again.

When you're young, it's pretty much impossible not to derive off something. Seriously--write what you want, and enjoy it, and show it to people who you think will enjoy it. You'll grow beyond those fears that you're copying off of someone.

Ben

With some amount of dispute I believe that I agree completely with you and cannot understand why you are arguing with me. The fact is that it is okay to take an idea so long as you make it your own. Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and other books have all taken some ideas and concepts from others but how they became successful was not by making them cliche but rather transforming it into something unique. For example Harry Potter and the X-men share the roots that they are both stories about people with supernatural powers going to a school to learn how to control them. Yet the differences are so immense that no one would ever think to compare them. There are many other books about unnatural boarding schools but Harry Potter stands out because she put a unique and original spin on it that made an original book with a not so original concept. That is all I am trying to say is take an idea but be sure you change it enough that it is yours and not someone else's.

[Spinner]

Ah, okay--thanks for that clarification. I run into a lot of people who think that making an idea your own means taking inspiration, but making it so its "not that, but this." For example, making elves perfect, but they're NOT Tolkiens because they all have horns, or something on that order. We agree. My bad ^^;

Ben

[Regitnui]

Your first attempt at writing will either be a) abysmal or b) a derivative. My work currrently consists of derivatives and inspiration taken from hundreds of different sources. I'm not an experienced writer, but as i rewrote my main project (See below) The characters became more and more my creations instead of the knock-off they were originally.

Basically if you're a first time writer, don't pressure yourself. Don't try and get published. Don't stick yourself to a deadline. And definitely do not give a damn about copying until you're confident.

--,-'-@

[ERASTRESHTIN WRTR]

thanks for your help everybody!!!!

[ERASTRESHTIN WRTR]

Just because Paolini supposedly copied, doesn't mean it is alright to do it yourself.
[/quote]

Not to exactly copy in any way...but in general, to make a book based on dragons and dragon riders...

The way I see it, dwarves and elves have been written about for years, and now that I have thought about this, then I don't think there is anything worng about writing a book with dragons and dragon riders...but I have realized that writing about dragons and dragon riders as Paolini is doing the same thing...is not exactly the very best idea. Sales wouldn't be good either. So I am going to wait until maybe a year or so after Paolini is done with his inheritance cycle and maybe even the movies before I think of actually publishing the books...

But I am still going to write them, and wait for the right time

-Thanks though