The hatching of Thorn, Wrong timing? Options

[SnapeandMurtagh ...]

At the battle of The Burning Plains, Murty says to Eragon that it wasn't his fault Galby captured and forced him into servitude, and that Thorn hatched for him.

Now, can dragons sense only the character and potential of the people around them, or is it a deeper awareness of what the person is feeling as well? Because if that is possible, Thorn would have sensed the turmoil and confusion and hatred within Murtagh at the time.

Was he compelled him to hatch for him inspite of it because of their compatibility, or did he just get a nasty surprise when he came into the world?

Also, is it possible that Galby had some underhanded methods of bringing about Thorn's hatching?

[Roragon]

I want to say that the Thorn hatched for Murtagh because he is a good guy and he could sense his character.
But dragons in nature hatched when the conditions of nature were just right, so maybe Galbatorix had to trick Thorn into thinking the conditions, besides Murtagh, were just right.

[Deej]

I'm pretty sure dragons sense the character and potential of potential riders, and make the decision to hatch based on that. After all, why would Galbatorix force Thorn to hatch for someone who he couldn't trust? Keep in mind that Murtagh had escaped before and they weren't on very good terms the last time they met. Galbatorix would much rather have had it hatch for one of his underlings. But for some reason or other Thorn saw something in Murtagh that no one else has in the books, and hatched upon their meeting. It had nothing to do with forcing him, it involved something about the two being compatible in some way.

[Silverine]

Here's what CP said about the matter in a Q&A:

Mike: Shouldn't Thorn have known the consequences of choosing Murtagh as his Rider?

Christopher: After over a hundred years as Galbatorix's captive, I think that Thorn would have been overjoyed to finally come into contact with someone, anyone, who had a spark of honor and decency in him. Because, whatever else you might say about him, Murtagh, didn't willingly choose to serve Galbatorix.

If you're interested, the link is here:

http://shurtugal.com/?id=qanda/qa_052909

[SnapeandMurtagh ...]

Thanks Silverline!
So before he was born, Thorn was aware he was being held captive by Galby? Ok, makes sense, but still seems like too much of a mess to willingly step into.

[Deej]

Thanks Silverline!
So before he was born, Thorn was aware he was being held captive by Galby? Ok, makes sense, but still seems like too much of a mess to willingly step into.

True, but perhaps he had hoped to step into said mess to try and fix it up, not knowing that Galbatorix knew their true names. If so then he didn't willingly step into it, so much as he did unknowingly.

[Silverine]

Thanks Silverline!

You're welcome!

True, but perhaps he had hoped to step into said mess to try and fix it up, not knowing that Galbatorix knew their true names. If so then he didn't willingly step into it, so much as he did unknowingly.

I'm not sure if Thorn knew what a "world he's going to hatch into". I think he just felt that Galby and whoever touched him were all bad people, so, as he felt the presence of evil didn't decide to hatch.
And as CP said, when he had felt someone touching him, who's not a complete mess, he hatched. I think he might even have regretted it when he did, but there was no way backwards.

Anyway, what CP said just completely ruins what I thought about dragons and their Riders through the analogy of Eragon and Saphira. In the first book, I always thought that Saphira hatching for Eragon was their destiny. I felt it couldn't have happened differently. I mean, Saphira was carried by Arya for a long time, and lots of elves and Varden touched it before Eragon, and yet, she kept holding on and never hatched for them.

And then, CP says, Thorn was so eager to get out of his egg that he hatched for the first person, who had a little decency in him... That's just disappointing. For me, it ruins the complete dragon-rider-destiny-thing. Saphira also had to wait for a long-long time, and yet, she could wait for the perfect person. What CP said, for me means that Murtagh was just kind of a backup for Thorn, much like: "allright, if no one else comes, than I'm stuck with you, so I guess I just hatch for you then..."

[skulblaka df]

I think Deej post already answered your question mate, but I want to give my opinion.
I think that Thorn hatched for Murtagh because when they met for the first time, Thorn sensed that deep down, Murtagh was a good guy and he had a lot of potential as a Rider, or maybe he was so desperate to hatch, that he hatched for the first guy who had the minimum requires to be a Dragon Rider.
But i think that's more plausible the first option, because if the second is true, then the greenie would already hatched, I think (:

[SnapeandMurtagh ...]

Anyway, what CP said just completely ruins what I thought about dragons and their Riders through the analogy of Eragon and Saphira. In the first book, I always thought that Saphira hatching for Eragon was their destiny. I felt it couldn't have happened differently. I mean, Saphira was carried by Arya for a long time, and lots of elves and Varden touched it before Eragon, and yet, she kept holding on and never hatched for them.

And then, CP says, Thorn was so eager to get out of his egg that he hatched for the first person, who had a little decency in him... That's just disappointing. For me, it ruins the complete dragon-rider-destiny-thing. Saphira also had to wait for a long-long time, and yet, she could wait for the perfect person. What CP said, for me means that Murtagh was just kind of a backup for Thorn, much like: "allright, if no one else comes, than I'm stuck with you, so I guess I just hatch for you then..."

I guess it depends on the personality of the dragon in question. We don't know much about Thorn, but maybe he's just an impatient guy, you know? And maybe Saphira made a conscious decision to wait for the perfect person to come along, no matter how long it took. Or maybe it's just a gut feeling or something and when it happens, it happens.

You also have to consider what Saphira would have done if she was in Thorn's place and she sensed Murty. I don't know if she sensed being rescued by Brom, and being transported in safe hands; maybe that's why she was comfortable with waiting. If she was still captive, maybe she'd have done the same thing as Thorn.

IMO, it again boils down to how much of the outside world a dragon can sense from within its egg.

[Silverine]

I guess it depends on the personality of the dragon in question. We don't know much about Thorn, but maybe he's just an impatient guy, you know? And maybe Saphira made a conscious decision to wait for the perfect person to come along, no matter how long it took. Or maybe it's just a gut feeling or something and when it happens, it happens.

You also have to consider what Saphira would have done if she was in Thorn's place and she sensed Murty. I don't know if she sensed being rescued by Brom, and being transported in safe hands; maybe that's why she was comfortable with waiting. If she was still captive, maybe she'd have done the same thing as Thorn.

IMO, it again boils down to how much of the outside world a dragon can sense from within its egg.

I think the dragon has to sense the personality of every single person that touches it, otherwise how could it decide on which one is going to become it's Rider? CP's mentioned comment IMO also means that Thorn had to feel the other's personalities, who thouched him and he hatched for the first person that had decency in him. (This for me means that he felt the presence of every single person that touched him, but didn't hatched for them as they were evil or something.)
So, Saphira must've felt Brom's and Arya's personality and so on, and she could still wait. The difference in the dragons' personalities might be the key though, as you've written.

I still find CP's comment a bit dissapointing though, as it implies, that Murtagh/Thorn's relationship is on a lower level than Saphira/Eragon's. I don't say CP really meant this, but in my interpretation there's a quality-difference between the two.

I think Deej post already answered your question mate, but I want to give my opinion.
I think that Thorn hatched for Murtagh because when they met for the first time, Thorn sensed that deep down, Murtagh was a good guy and he had a lot of potential as a Rider, or maybe he was so desperate to hatch, that he hatched for the first guy who had the minimum requires to be a Dragon Rider.
But i think that's more plausible the first option, because if the second is true, then the greenie would already hatched, I think (:

I think the two theorizes are equally true. CP himself claimed the second, but I like your version better.

This post has been edited by Silverine: Nov 4 2009, 05:29 AM

[Timbowolf]

Did Galbatorix somehow trick Thorn into hatching? I doubt it; if he could have done that he would have done it for the green egg as well. Not only that, like someone already said, he would have had Thorn hatch for someone loyal to him.

How much can a dragon in an egg tell about the world around them? Harder to answer, but I have a feeling that even if Thorn knew trouble awaited him he might not have been able to stop himself. He was just so excited at finally finding someone he saw as a worthy rider he hatched without considering the consequences. I mean, for Saphira it would have probably been a more logical choice to hatch for Arya, but she didn't. The wisdom of her choice is debatable, but that's for another topic. My point is that Thorn may have had good intentions, but he could have made a poorly considered choice without realizing it.

[Angry Yoshua]

I want to say that the Thorn hatched for Murtagh because he is a good guy and he could sense his character.
But dragons in nature hatched when the conditions of nature were just right, so maybe Galbatorix had to trick Thorn into thinking the conditions, besides Murtagh, were just right.

I agree, but dragons are smarter than that.

However, Galbatorix is as wily as a fox.

-------------------
Also, to the previous poster's signature...
"My Book 4: Dawn"
Isn't that copying a teenage ninja(minus the ninja) vampire series?

This post has been edited by Angry Yoshua: Nov 10 2009, 12:12 AM

[Timbowolf]

I want to say that the Thorn hatched for Murtagh because he is a good guy and he could sense his character.
But dragons in nature hatched when the conditions of nature were just right, so maybe Galbatorix had to trick Thorn into thinking the conditions, besides Murtagh, were just right.

I agree, but dragons are smarter than that.

However, Galbatorix is as wily as a fox.

-------------------
Also, to the previous poster's signature...
"My Book 4: Dawn"
Isn't that copying a teenage ninja(minus the ninja) vampire series?

On topic: Maybe Galbatorix was relying on Thorn's eagerness to hatch. I don't know, but I don't think he used any kind of real trickery as if he could have he would have done for the green egg as well, and he would have made a smarter chocie of rider.

Off topic: I don't read many vampire serieses so I wouldn't know if Dawn was the name of any of them (are you referring to Breaking Dawn, the 4th Twilight book by Stephanie Meyer?). And I didn't copy anything; I just thought Dawn would be a cool name.

This post has been edited by Timbowolf: Nov 10 2009, 07:01 AM

[bookwormgirl]

Just because Thorn chose Murtagh doesn't mean that it wasn't their destiny to be paired as dragon and rider. It was destiny that lead Murtagh to be the first person of decent character to touch Thorn's egg.

As to how much a dragon can sense when it is still inside its egg, is never been really made clear in the books. I am not really sure myself. If it can only sense the person who touches it, then why didn't Saphira hatch right away for Eragon? If it can sense its surroundings as well, then why did Thorn hatch when he did?