[Aiedail Shadeslayer]

Yeah, I didn't, but I thought it was a great discussion, for those of you who have read the two book series in the title. They are the Kushiel books by Jacqueline Carey (Kushiel's Dart, Kushiel's Chosen, Kushiel's Avatar, Kushiel's Scion, Kushiel's Justice and Kushiel's Mercy[The newest Terre d'Ange book, Naamah's Kiss, is not really relevant to this discussion]) and Anne Bishop's Black Jewels series(Daughter of the Blood, Heir to the Shadows, Queen of Darkness, The Invisible Ring, Dreams Made Flesh, Tangled Webs and The Shadow Queen). So, here it is, let me know what you think!

I took this from a thread on a BJT RPF site: Witchfire

Hello everyone,

So, I noticed the poll for CotM was hijacked due to a quote from Kushiel's Dart (well, the whole series, but it started with Dart). I'm using the book in one of my school projects, and I know a few people have read both works, so I thought it would be a good time to ask a couple questions.

Don't worry, this is informal. I won't mention anything about it in my report since I'd probably have to go through my university's research ethics policy to actually interview anyone. It's just a sort of measure of appeal.

Those of you who have only read the BJT can skip this next part.

For those of you who have read Kushiel's Dart (or any other book in the series):

1. What do you find particularly appealing about the books? This can be anything from characters, themes, setting. Is there anything you did not like about the books?

2. Would you recommend the BJT to fans of Kushiel's Legacy? Are there any similarities between the two series that you think would be appealing to fans of either series? On the flip side, are there reasons you would NOT recommend these books?

For those of you who have only read the BJT:

1. What do you like about the BJT? What do you dislike about the series?

2. Can you think of any books that might be similar to the BJT?

For both:

In her books, Bishop deals with a lot of controversial themes (especially with regards to sexual practices). For instance, some reviewers have accused Daemon of pedophilia. The books also touch on prostitution, incest, rape, and slavery (just to name a few things). Do you feel that these issues were handled sensitively? Also, is there a limit to how much sex and violence you can tolerate in a book?

Sorry if my questions sound painfully obvious, but I think it would help my project if someone took the time to answer them.




And here is my answer, just to get it started:


I'm going to answer all three sets of questions, cause they are all good questions.

Kushiel's Legacy:
1. What do you find particularly appealing about the books? This can be anything from characters, themes, setting. Is there anything you did not like about the books?
The number one thing I like about these books is that Ms. Carey isn't afraid to bring in some "not acceptable"(quote from the 'rents about 3 years ago) things into her work. And her writing style is nothing to laugh at either. She really draws you in with the characters and holds you with their adventures. And with the last three books, (Scion, Justice and Mercy), she shows a depth to Imriel that strikes close to the heart, at least for me. I'm not saying my parents were traitors, or that I'm having an affair with my cousin(though he is pretty damn hot ) But the main issues that he deals with, like how to be good, I can empathize with.
While the sex scenes aren't as graphic as some books, i.e. J. R. Ward's Black Dagger Brotherhood series, in Phèdre's trilogy especially, there is a sense of something mystical, if you know what I mean.
Also, the way Ms. Carey has described the love between Phèdre and Joscelin is splendid. A priest and a courtesan, even in our world, would be frowned upon.
And lastly, the depth of history and mythology she used is fascinating. I'm majoring in history education, and have always been fascinated by the time these books are set in, and I can see where she gets her time period and the events and places in the books. Ms. Carey's parallel universe in quite believable.

2. Would you recommend the BJT to fans of Kushiel's Legacy? Are there any similarities between the two series that you think would be appealing to fans of either series? On the flip side, are there reasons you would NOT recommend these books?
Yes, I would and have recommended the BJT to Kushiel fans and Kushiel to BJT fans. I actually got my best friend addicted to both.
There are a few similarities, namely the sexual overtones and undertones. Like Kael said, Lucivar and Joscelin are like each other, in a weird way, both warriors trained from childhood and both would, and have, go the extra mile for those they love.
I also find that Imriel and Jaenelle are comparable, both had their childhood stolen from them, if in different ways, both were used sexually and both are adopted by people who love them and manage to get at least a small part of what was stolen from them back.
Haha, any of the people I grew up with would die before they picked up these books! Mostly because of the sex and magic in them! But yeah, I wouldn't recommend these books to anyone who doesn't like sex in their books.

BJT:
1. What do you like about the BJT? What do you dislike about the series?
I like the way she blatantly talks about things that are so much a part of today's society but are to some people wrong, and yet the way she does it, it's perfectly acceptable. For example, infidelity. It is mentioned several times throughout the books and the characters openly engage in affairs, etc. And no one gets majorly pissed off. Well, except for the Warlord Princes.
And also, the way she handles Jaenelle's rape(though it does take slightly to much room in the books), is so open and just, there. I find that refreshing.

2. Can you think of any books that might be similar to the BJT?
Similar? You mean besides her Tir Alainn and Ephemera series? LOL. Path of Fate and it's sequels by Diana Pharaoh Francis, maybe. Just for the female power, a mystical source of power and an unknown/unseen deity, the Wheel of Times series(and JUST for those three things). And for some reason the Books of Amber by Roger Zelazny keep coming to mind, though I couldn't tell you why.

Both:
In her books, Bishop deals with a lot of controversial themes (especially with regards to sexual practices). For instance, some reviewers have accused Daemon of pedophilia. The books also touch on prostitution, incest, rape, and slavery (just to name a few things). Do you feel that these issues were handled sensitively? Also, is there a limit to how much sex and violence you can tolerate in a book?
In our world, yes, Daemon would be considered a pedophile, if only because he is centuries older than Jaenelle. But really, in our world, he would be what, maybe 39, 40ish? At the most? And by the time they have sex, marry, etc, Jaenelle is past the age of majority.
Yes, most of the things you named were handled with a degree of sensitivity. I find that she spent a little to much time throughout all 6 of the books(or short stories) that had Jaenelle in them focusing on her rape, etc, but other than a bit of obsession with that, yes.
When the author seems to take delight in putting down every, single, minute detail of sex, or embellishing the violence and describing every wound and blood splatter down the the last angle, yes, I have a limit, not because it is disgusting or something, but because it's just so time consuming to read.

Have fun!